buffy the vampire slayer / angel the series/ sonnets from the portuguese by elizabeth barrett browning
buffy the vampire slayer / angel the series/ sonnets from the portuguese by elizabeth barrett browning
Looking at the timeline is very likely Buffy spent her 16th birthday in a mental institution.
" I’ve always admitted that I’m ruled by my passions.
Independent Roleplayer for Buffy the vamp. slay.er , original character, canon divergent ,and non. Side blog, and semi-selective
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Fuffy + fuck yeah, posts about ship dynamics that remind me of fuffy
Why can't I sleep at night? Dark Willow
“sort of a double date” spike harsh light of day most insane line of all actually like . repositioning himself in one line as on the same romantic playing field as buffy.
and he’s been teetering towards that since s2 — their love lives keep circling each other like sharks — even from the days when he is a more detached villain, his personal life is nonetheless constantly made Buffy’s business (buffy clocking how important dru is to spike in lie to me // and in becoming part ii, it’s “i want dru back, I want it to be like it was.”) And then there’s the structure of how becoming mirrors surprise— the couple of buffy and angel against the couple of dru and spike. and now dru and angel are together romantically and as evil allies , against buffy and spike, also allies, and it leaves this empty space in the back half of that analogy, this lacuna of romance between buffy and spike, this narrative space where a romance both is and isn’t .
and then?? Lovers walk, again, spike’s love life is buffy’s business. i mean, his breakup with dru is Everyone’s business but Buffy makes a point to make it hers. “You’re not even a loser anymore, you’re a shell of a loser.” But Buffy’s love life still isn’t his business — not until he makes it his. he says I will live on the same emotional plane as u I swear to vampire god— “you’re not friends, you’ll never be friends …” spike making grand proclamations about Buffy’s love life — he is moving their emotional inner worlds closer. and it works — “I can’t fool myself, or spike for some reason.” But there’s still a distance! It’s not that their love lives are entangled — the empty space / fertile ground for romance that the becoming alliance creates is still unrealized. they’re circling around the space but haven’t closed it. spike is making Buffy’s love life his business, but as an external observer, as far as he’s concerned . (it does have actual ramifications — she friend breaks up with angel and it lasts a whole episode which as far as s3 angel breakups go is pretty good snjdjf I mean it lasts longer than the enemies → earshot breakup). but spike doesn’t know he had that impact. he’s still on the outside. can’t stress enough that at this point in the story dru told him like, weeks ago, that he was in love with Buffy and he said okay. that’s false and untrue and on an unrelated note I’m gonna go to her town now and act all pissy that she’s still involved with my grandsire:)
but then!! harsh light of day!!! he rolls into town and says first things first we are on a double date and second thing second I think my love life can exist on the same plane as your love life. notably this is the first in the “is that guy your boyfriend?” running gag. he’s broken through the wall between their romantic worlds and critically it’s also bc Buffy meets him halfway. Spike insults Buffy’s date and Buffy insults Spike’s date. last time spike was in town he ragged in her and angel’s breakup status so now she rags on him and dru’s breakup status. the Buffy-Parker plot parallels the Harmony-Spike plot with that montage of lovelorn women walking sadly into the distance . spike’s not this figure who operates in a separate emotional world to the main cast anymore, him and his vampire wife content in their closed system, but is in the caustic and changing sphere of Buffy’s romantic orbit, and he stays there forever. Literally he makes his home in the fluctuating state of being romantically entangled with Buffy. literally 3 more appearances into his s4 tenure he and buffy are getting married. he is moving the lines he is changing the landscape and their worlds are surging towards each other they r altering the way they live in this narrative together . s7 buffy says “he is in my heart” and he fucking IS!!!! hi
Buffyverse (1997-2004)/Supernatural (2005-2020) Parallels (1/?)
TVARCHIVE’S TV APPRECIATION WEEK day 7: tv show with the best ending ⤷ Buffy The Vampire Slayer (1997-2003)
You pulled a nice trick. You came pretty close to smacking me down. What more do you want? Buffy the Vampire Slayer 7.22 ‘Chosen’
giles leaving sunnydale in s6 still feels so sore to me even after thinking about the whole situation for so long. it’s sad because it’s not even out of character if you think about it for a bit longer, which makes the whole thing even more painful. it’s just really telling and just so painful to see how buffy “breaks” their usual dynamic and tells him many times that him being there is making her feel safe and it feels like her mom is back and it’s nice knowing he’s always going to be there and then he hears that??? and sees she’s not only struggling with heavy depression from being ripped from heaven, she’s also dealing with life things like taking care of her younger sister and having to get a job and pay bills and the like and still being the Slayer on top of it all, he sees all that and decides THIS is the moment to go?? this is the moment to say i think my child needs to learn to stand on their own two feet?? sorry but IS THIS REALLY THE MOMENT MR. GILES????
“You and me... is something I don’t want to lose without a fight.”
I’m gonna have some quality alone time and unlimited access to Hulu, Netflix, and Prime this weekend. I’m so excited I could cry.
Do I rewatch Doctor Who or Buffy??
@tvarchive Day 7: the show with the best ending
The Chosen One becomes the ordinary girl
buffy getting weapons and saying if this is how she wants to play it, then i'll have to kill her she set the rules and xander saying i don't wanna lose you and i don't just mean that in the i don't want you to get hurt way.... xander as buffy's heart saying i don't want to lose you in a conversation about whether to kill faith or not....
[3/4] of the the scoobies !
Hi! wondering what your take is on this: a common criticism of bangel is that their relationship is immature and that this immaturity is highlighted in the times they come together in the crossovers…..apparently these crossovers cause the characters to regress. Do you think this is true?
I genuinely do not understand the insistence that as soon as they see each other post S3, they immediately lose all character growth. I’ve watched both shows several times and feel that I know both characters very well and I always felt that the crossovers were done in service of the characters and the storylines. I thought they did a great job of showcasing a new, more mature Bangel dynamic, taking their individual growths into account while staying true to their personalities.
Of course this critism is often used by spuffy and ESPECIALLY cangel shippers to highlight just how much more “mature” their ships are but it’s all just very disingenuous.
First of all, I accidentally answered someone else before you. Sorry! I read your ask in a rush and immediately forgot about it. I don't like answering asks out of order, because it's unfair, but sometimes I do it by mistake!
Secondly... regarding the issue of immaturity in the first three seasons, and Cangel and Spuffy, I'll refer you to these asks: x, x, x, x, x. They sort of address part of your ask. I'm pretty sure I've written other posts on these topics, but Tumblr's search function sucks so bad I can't find anything :/
Buffy and Angel met up a handful of times post season 3. In End of Days/Chosen people often say Angel was immature, and that his behavior was weird considering he'd lost his child and should know better than to get back together with Buffy. Imo, this was just poor writing as Angel's character was sacrificed for the great good of giving Bangel closure. x, x
However, Angel getting jealous of Spike, or Angel being petty in general, is so canon and has nothing to do with Buffy. In fact, Angel was never that petty until AtS, so you can't say he regressed because of Buffy. In The Yoko Factor he acts jealous and petty too, but that's not regression - that's literally Angel's AtS persona crossing over into BtVS. And the way Buffy handled his and Riley's testosterone fest was pretty mature. And Angel acted maturely too, once he calmed down. That hallway scene with Angel and Buffy is literally one of the biggest examples of maturity from either character and one of the healthiest conversations they, or any other Buffyverse couple, ever had.
In IWRY, I don't see how Buffy acted immature? She acted like Buffy. She told Angel his behavior had bothered her, he agreed and apologized, and they both agreed not to see each other again. Sounds mature enough to two people still hurting over a painful breakup. Sure, they were both dramatic about it, but that's in character for them - and I mean them individually too. Then Angel became human, they tried to talk about it, failed and had sex - perfectly normal - and then Angel gave up being human to save Buffy and the rest of humanity - isn't that mature? I don't see how Buffy regressed. I think people dislike that Buffy tried to talk Angel out of turning back time? Like he was out-heroing her? Why wouldn't she fight Angel on it? He was taking a risk and giving up on something so important.
As for Sanctuary (the real episode people have a problem with), Buffy resenting Faith is perfectly natural. Faith used her body to have sex with Riley, and then Buffy saw her cozying up with Angel (whom she had already kissed once) like she was the victim in this whole situation. So Buffy got a bit angry. I don't necessarily like Buffy's behavior that much, but I think part of the reason why she felt a bit OOC is because she's a stranger on AtS. We're used to her being the hero, and the narrative serving her and her journey. But she's not as important as Angel on AtS, just as Angel's hero journey is inconsequential in Forever and Chosen. It's inevitable that when the main characters crossover to different shows they change because they serve a different purpose. They can't be the same because we're seeing them from a different pov. This has less to do with maturity and more to do with storytelling... I can't say that Buffy isn't sacrificed for Angel's sake in Sanctuary, because I think she is a bit. She's usually a bit more understanding and forgiving of Faith, but became very defensive on AtS (with good reason!). Still, that rooftop moment between Faith and Buffy was so important for Faith and a turning point in their relationship. Buffy acted a bit intense but she saw reason in the end. I guess it's hard to accept Buffy giving up on Faith and Angel standing up for her, because Faith is the one with a connection to Buffy - and Buffy feels that strangeness too. The last time Angel helped Faith, it was at Buffy's request, but now he was going out of his way to help someone he hadn't cared too much about before... Buffy became suspicious. But what Buffy didn't know was that Faith had broken down in Angel's arms and that Angel had become someone who lived to help people. Faith was the first person Angel saved emotionally, not just physically, and that gave him hope for himself and his future. Buffy didn't know any of this though...
My biggest complaint about the episode would be the last fight between Angel and Buffy, but I understand its purpose. x
To recap, I won't lie and say Buffy didn't act a bit OOC in Sanctuary and IWRY. She wasn't the hero, for once, and she was so hurt and defensive too. But if you take a character like Buffy, who the world revolves around, and put her in a context in which she's not the hero anymore, it's gonna look weird... Buffy may have been extra sensitive and a bit OOC because she was in uncharted territory and away from home... Like Faith said, Buffy is used to being in control, and she was not in control on AtS. I do believe her character was written to benefit Angel's narrative but that's sort of the point of a guest star. She was actually less sacrificed for Angel than Angel was for her in Chosen lol.
Oh, as for Forever, Angel wasn't OOC then either, although he did act too much like he would drop everything for Buffy. I guess that's love?
Lastly, I want to point out that Buffy and Angel have a long history together and that people act differently in different contexts and around different people. Buffy and Angel reverting to their previous dynamic when together isn't necessarily a sign of regression, but rather a sign that they haven't spent enough time together post break-up to grow into a new dynamic, and also it's natural that they'd be different with each other vs. with others.
I love Bangel post season 3. I think their relationship matures for sure, because they're able to put aside their feelings for each other to do what they need to do. Angel gives up on being human in IWRY, and puts Faith first in Sanctuary. He listens to Buffy when she tells him to leave in Chosen. Buffy accepts Angel's decision in Sanctuary too. They have a respectful, loving dynamic. The way they talk about each other and look back on their relationship is a reflection of this. The fact that they can comfort each other (even in memory) is too. But it's not perfect, because they had so few interactions post break-up. (Side-note, most of their post season 3 development happens when each character grows separately and their relationship acquires a different meaning to them. For Buffy, it's pure love, comfort; for Angel, it's perfect happiness, the beginning of him and his journey.)
I think I've changed as a person now. I don't believe that a relationship can be perfectly mature or that maturity is the be-all and end-all of a relationship. Maturity is something you can work toward. I think Bangel always tried to be mature. In season 2 they often weren't, but that's okay! It doesn't mean anything. Buffy was just a teenager and Angel was immature in so many ways (because Buffy was, and they had to be on the same level, and because he spent decades hiding from people). But they still made mature decisions and grew from their mistakes. They're so much more mature in season 3. They communicate better and carry themselves differently, with more confidence and level-headedness. But they're not perfect either! No one is... Mentally ill people are incapable of being completely mature. Angel was depressed, and Buffy was a traumatized teenager, and later young adult... But I'm digressing.
I don't believe Bangel was super mature, but I don't believe they were immature at all. They didn't have a chance to truly mature because they had little time together. But, overall, they grew into mature people who could for sure have a much more mature relationship post NFA - but that relationship would never be entirely "mature" because Angel and Buffy are not normal people; they're very traumatized individuals, so they're bound to make a lot of mistakes.
Despite what I said, I really, really don't think Cangel and Spuffy were mature. Spuffy was literally toxic and the small moments of maturity Spike and Buffy displayed weren't enough. Even in season 7, Spike isolated Buffy and she was with him out of guilt and loneliness.
Angel and Cordy never actually had a romantic relationship, but Angel did not handle his feelings for her well in season 4, and, in season 3, Cordelia threw her friendship with Wesley away because all she could see was Angel - so that doesn't really give me hope for them. A friendship is super different from a romance. Cangel were mature as friends, but not particularly mature as something more. And it's hard to judge anyway because they didn't have any time together.... There's no relationship to speak of. People talk a lot about Cangel being mature, but they're just talking about their friendship, especially in season 3 when Cordelia lived for Angel (which is a major red flag). They forget Cordelia abandoned Angel in season 2, and that Angel couldn't tell Cordelia wasn't Cordelia in season 4. But a friendship can easily be mature. No one talks about maturity when it comes to friendships - as long as it's not toxic, then it's mature. And shippers conflate Cangel's friendship with their nonexistent romance and try to compare that with Bangel's very real romantic relationship like they're on the same league at all. It is disenginious.
Thanks for the ask! This was very long, and I didn't even say all I wanted to say, but this was the best I could do. If you have follow-up questions, feel free to ask.
so someone on the buffy wiki asked a question that i have basically been thinking about non-stop since i saw it
how would btvs be different if spike had died when he was originally planned to, during the church collapse in season 2
and there's a lot of interesting logistical questions (honestly the answer is not much, he very rarely actually contributes to the main plot, probably because most of the writers room hated using him) like how would s7 end (you just create a different arbitrary mcguffin), would the buffybot still exist (probably yes, you just make her a warren or a jonathan thing and remove spike from the equation), what would buffy's s6 unhealthy coping mechanism be (my instinct is to say a buffy/xander subplot, which would be objectively worse but would hit basically all the same narrative beats, and would also make the xander/anya breakup feel a bit less weird)
but that isn't the reason i've been obsessing over this
the reason i've been obsessing over this is that if spike dies in that church, drusilla should logically become a recurring villain, probably hitting a lot of the same broad plot beats as spike did
and now i can't stop thinking about a version of buffy where dru gets actual character developement, where they have to think of cool shit to do with her future-seeing powers (being completely incidental to the plot is a very weird quality for clairvoyent powers to have tbh but they never once make effective use of them in the show)
and i also realised that in a version of season 6 where dru is a main cast member, or at least a recurring guest star, the obvious choice would be for her to mentor willow
willow never gets any kind of magic teacher in any way that matters, and she never gets to talk to another canon-queer person apart from tara, and giving willow a mentor figure who is magic and queer and probably pretty supportive, but also is absolutely 100% trying to make willow worse would be so interesting! and maybe it would force the writers to remember that giles knows magic, and you could have a 'which will willow choose' dynamic going on between this proudly bi proudly magic vampire and the closetted deeply afraid of his own magic human and it could be so interesting! like i fucking love spike and giles's canon relationship, but it never goes anywhere and this would absolutely have to go somewhere
also there would obviously be a subplot, probably in season 4, about dru manipulating events to bring spike back from the dead, but he'd come back as human, and the scoobies would want to protect him from her both because he's human and because spike died before they realised he's not actually a threat so they think vampire spike is a big deal, so he'd be a main cast member and build relationships with them all, and you've got human spike and vampire dru kind of circling one another and flirting but also being freaked out by one another, and however you chose to end the subplot it would be the kind of compelling tragedy that all the best spike stories are. if he choses to become a vampire then you're functionally killing the relationships he would have built with the scoobies by that point, and if he chooses to stay human, you're breaking dru's heart, and basically every other variation i can think of is also tragic, and i love basically all of them
and dru would fucking hate glory, even if you never did the chip subplot in s4 and didn't use human spike to bring her into the group, you could absolutely fold her into the gang in s5 using 'the enemy of my enemy' as the justification
there are so many little problems with buffy that you could fix using dru as a recurring character - the watcher's council functionally only exist when needed, they have no real presence, but they're canonically fascinated with dru and want to experiment on her so they'd have a reason to have a recurring presence in the show that isn't directly related to buffy. vampires have no culture and the one time they were given a religion the writers were too scared to explore it in any depth, but dru is possitioned to interact with the cult of aurelius in a way spike never was, so they might be forced to actually think about the fact that vampires ought to have a unique culture and religious perspective and general outlook on the world. the concept of bisexuality might have to exist. everything with how angel interacts with the gang post s2 would be so much more interesting, and there'd be a reason to bring darla back and give her some character developement. mental health! they'd have to talk about mental health prior to season 6!
i'm not going to write this fic, because it would be so fucking long, but please join me in imagining the au that could have been if buffy comics weren't all terrible, or i had infinite time for writing fic
help girl i can’t stop thinking about oz